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DAVID THORBURN: The film experience is, as I said, began many years ago, 38 or 39 years ago in the version that I teach. And it has undergone almost a continuous process of transformation. One of the ironies is that it began its career in an era before there was any technology available to support film study. It made things actually very awkward. But it was also in some way convenient for the professor. What we used to have to do was show the film. We used to-- and in fact, MIT belong to a group called the University Film Study Center. A group of institutions, included Harvard and Yale. And what we did was we had a library of 16 millimeter prints of classic films. And we circulated them. So you had to alter your syllabus so that the guy at Harvard was also able to do Keaton because there was only one copy of The General available. So that was very complicated. And but we all managed to do it. And then at while I was at MIT, that system became moribund because videotape be...

It was quite an experience for all of us to get to hear him. And it is equally very fortunate now to have Wayne Hale who has had a very illustrious career at NASA. Wayne came to NASA the same year I did in 1978, worked his way up as an engineer through the propulsion system, the integrated communication systems. Became a flight director in 1988 and served there for 15 years. He was flight director both for the orbit phase and then the most really kind of intense flight control phase as ascent and entry. And Wayne was ascent and entry flight director and then lead flight director for many flights, including-- we were trying to figure out before. But I think he actually served for all of my last four flights. So we've known each other for a long time. In 2003, he was sent to the Kennedy Space Center to be head of launch operations. But he didn't get to spend very much time in the Florida sunshine because they asked him to come back to Houston the next year as deputy...